Leading successful teams through challenges and hyper growth at Ratepay
In this episode Paul speaks with Nina Pütz, CEO of Ratepay, about her experience in growing successful global businesses even during difficult times. Nina explains the importance as a leader to ensure the health of her teams, both physically and mentally. She also details what it is like to scale a business that is already going through hypergrowth and what it takes to keep the company focused on solving the problems for customers and ensure future successes.
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Our Guest: Nina Pütz
Nina took over as CEO of Ratepay in September 2020 right during the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic. Before Ratepay, Nina was a CEO at brands4friends - Private Sale GmbH, formerly owned by eBay. Nina has also held many numerous high ranking positions while working at eBay since 2004. She is an expert in retail, ecommerce, payment, and new leadership and has been leading teams to success for quite some time. She has been a guest on numerous podcasts, she is a speaker at many leading industry events and we were so happy to have her as a guest on the show.
- Follow her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nina-pütz/
- Find our more about Ratepay: https://www.ratepay.com/en/
Check out the full transcript below and make sure to like, share and follow the podcast on Spotify, Apple or Google Podcasts.
Interview Recorded on September 30, 2021
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Paul Jozefak:
00:00 - Okay. Hi everyone. So today I'm here with Nina Puetz. Thank you so much for joining us,
Nina. It's been a long time coming that we finally actually sit in front of one another. I'm happy to have you here. For those who don't know Nina, and I'm presuming probably 90% of the people who are going to be listening to this know her, Nina is the CEO of Ratepay. If I have it correct, you joined the company back in September of 2020. We'll definitely come back to the point of joining a business as a CEO during COVID. That's one of the topics I'd love to talk to you about, but let me give a little bit of background and then we can just dive in. So prior to Ratepay, Nina was at eBay, a small little company that some people might know, or actually at Brands4friends, which obviously eBay purchased. And I don't even want to read all the jobs you had there. I think I see different roles here. So Senior Director of vertical transformation, Director of fashion, the Head of strategic partnerships, long story short, I think Nina knows eCommerce inside out. She's probably a payments expert and has definitely been in eCommerce for quite some time and as most people probably know, she's been on a lot of podcasts. I see you all over LinkedIn So I don't think I have to do a lot of branding and positioning for you. So thanks again for joining us thats the lead into you.
Nina Puetz:
01:49 - Thanks for having me today. Thank you.
Paul Jozefak:
00:51 - It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. And I think today you're having a pretty busy day because I think I saw the mention of Miriam [Wohlfarth - CEO of Banxware], who's a previous guest of this podcast having officially announced her departure. So yeah, I'll try and keep you as short as possible. I'm sure all the press is chasing you today. So...
Nina Puetz:
02:09 - Yeah, big change, big official change, of course, today but-
Paul Jozefak:
Yeah, it feels like an era ending.
Nina Puetz:
Yeah, it is. It is.
Paul Jozefak:
02:16 - Well, it's time for you, I'm sure to grow the company to 10 or 100X. So on that note, so why don't I let you give a little bit of your background. So what have you been doing in eCommerce? What's gotten you into these leadership positions? Just in your own voice.
Nina Puetz:
02:32 - Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you could really say I'm an eCommerce veteran. So I spent little over 15 years at eBay in many, many different roles. I think the only one that I didn't ever do was coding and running some product team but I've done really anything from seller experience to buyer experience to end to end even trust and safety. But for the longest part, I was doing business development and then running fashion for eBay, the B2C business for fashion and in the end before I left in order to become CEO of Brands4friends, I ran eBay's soft goods business. So basically anything that doesn't have a plug, I was responsible for. And so spending there so many years, I obviously was part of the constant continuous digital transformation that happened and how over the course of years customer expectations have massively changed. And then at Brands4friends, which I then ran for two years and sold out of eBay to a US private equity firm, I for the very first time really had a full P&L ownership and what I loved most about the role was when I decided something, I could see it in the P&L two weeks later. And it was also super interesting time because Brands4friends had always been focused on revenue growth and therefore was managed in a certain way and when I came in, this was a heavy transformation phase with the super strong goal to grow top line business and to become profitable over time. So basically I turned every stone around changed pretty much everything and really had progress which then led into a sale in the end.
Paul Jozefak:
04:30 - How was the transition? So working at eBay, which definitely was... I don't know if during your time it was very much steered from the US or whether you guys were independent. What was the transition for you as a leader from that kind of a role of the European outpost to pretty much a German business, which I believe Brands4friends was, how did that evolve for you in terms of what you had to do?
Nina Puetz:
04:53 - Yeah, it was... This is a really interesting one because eBay's global company for many years was steered from the US. However, Germany was always the second biggest market for eBay for a very long time and then towards the end, UK came to a similar size. But that was always led to the fact that Germany had a very, very strong position. And in this global context was running many projects and driving these on global scale. So for 10 years or so was actually so that when I ran fashion, for example, I was running it from Germany but I was the one driving the global fashion strategy and then trying to fight and get the resources in order to secure the engineering resources. Yeah, this was great one because all of that was and still is pretty much based in the US in this... Yeah. It's part of why eBay has been so successful in the early days but from my point of view, also a reason for why eBay has been overtaken by Amazon, yeah, because they do certain things different.
Paul Jozefak:
I think it's going to be interesting for all the startups in Europe right now since you have all these growth of unicorns, once they start getting bought by all these US companies, you're going to start seeing more and more of that kind of evolution of being the outpost in Europe versus the resources in the US. So-
Nina Puetz:
06:13 - Yeah, but it's not a negative thing. So as I said, eBay Germany was never an outpost. Yeah. So we had a full team here, the only things that were globally aligned were the engineering resources. And in my early days, when I joined in 2004, product management was run out of the local countries. And then what you always have for such a big corporation, you have big swings, yeah. So for the early part of the 2000s, everything in eBay was pretty much local with clear understanding for how different certain countries are and for how different customer needs are in certain countries. And then there was a phase of country consolidation or globalization where there was a super strong focus of removing all these double positions and gaining more synergies and aligning the organization more globally and this was run for a couple of years, but the swing came back pretty soon when it was understood that there are, especially for the big countries, huge differences and that you lose market share if you don't focus on the respective certain needs that are always there in countries. So we all move them back to country orgs, but then with certain functions being driven out of headquarters in the US.
Paul Jozefak:
So the secret of the success was not being the outpost it was actually being very much geographically independent and driven?
Nina Puetz:
07:58 - And driven and then working your matrix well in order to securing the things that you need for Germany. And for example, where Germany was leading was in bio activation things and local merchandising. So Germany, for example, invented eBay's deals business. So back in the old days when Groupon or the deals platforms were really big, a colleague of mine invented that at eBay and really built that off platform super fast and then it was such a global success that it was deeply integrated into the platform and then driven out of Germany globally.
Paul Jozefak:
Okay. And what led to the change to go from eBay to Brands4friends? How did that-
Nina Puetz:
08:44 - Yeah. My boss at the time, the guy who ran eBay Europe approached me and said, "Look, the current CEO is leaving and I would love it if you take the role. We don't have anyone else internally," and I declined at the beginning and said, "No, I'm not doing that," because I was, at that time, I had planted many seeds and the return was coming back and I was pretty happy with my current role in soft goods that I was having at the time. And I was very reluctant of taking the role because I knew what was ahead of Brands4friends and what would need to come. And I said, "Look, if you had offered me that role two years ago or four years ago, that would've been an interesting one but not now so much anymore," And then eventually he convinced me and I took over but my deal was that I kept also a foot, a leg in eBay and I was still responsible for all the transformation things that were going in in eBay, so I was having two roles at that time. But soon, really soon after I joined, I found out that I was loving, absolutely loving what I was doing because my impact was bigger. So I was no longer senior part in the global matrix organization, but I was fully running my own business, totally independent and being able to decide where I want to focus my engineering and product resources. And it was a super intense time because I had to swing right from the start from this primarily focus on driving revenue growth towards revenues no longer that important, but we need to turn this company around and make money with it. And there were tough things at the beginning because I also had to eliminate certain roles in order to save cost. We had to change many, many things in operations, had to renegotiate big deals on the logistic sides and with DHL and so on. But it was such a positive vibe in this transformation, which was also shown in the employee satisfaction of Brands4friends employees at that time where everyone was super engaged and said, "This is so great. This journey we are on and becoming more and more independent from our mothership eBay here," this was really a great time. And then of course I learned a lot in that sale process. It was my first own [Mergers and acquisitions] project where I was in the driver's seat and sold it. And in the end, I mean, we decided not to become German [Private Equity] owned, but for a global one. So that was also a big... Yeah a big change for me. And in the end, you have to say... If you also would ask me for my failures, that I did in that role in the end, sometimes I'm a little bit sad because I have a feeling that we didn't sell to the perfect partner and the current owner of brands4friends is really, really focusing extremely on the bottom line, which leads to a... Not an equilibrium anymore. Yeah. Certain things break then if the focus is very strong and this was also why I left, because I didn't, at that time, I didn't want to stand, therefore I couldn't translate and feel the morals and the culture anymore.
Paul Jozefak:
Yeah. That would've been my question, whether that's what actually led you to make the decision to leave.
Nina Puetz:
12:36 - Yeah. That was the major decision and that's also in the end for why I decided to join Ratepay because this is what everyone is asking me, "So why did you change sides at this long? I mean you've always done ecommerce, why did you go into payments?" And I had a feeling that I have, for a marketplace, I've done pretty much everything. So I know it from every different angle that you might imagine. I've done online and offline retail because pre-joining eBay, I was in offline retail and then turning a company totally around, yeah, saving millions on the bottom line, selling that, I said, "my learning curve is feeling to be... It's no longer steep, yeah, it's flattening down." And I had the urgent drive to really start to learn again and I decided to join Ratepay also because of the culture. I really fell in love with this particular culture, the warmth that Miriam had built in Ratepay and also what I felt what was losing now at Brands4friends, which drove the decision and again some other really interesting retail roles that had been offered.
Paul Jozefak:
13:49 - I have the benefit of having seen Ratepay for so many years kind of where it came from and what it's now so to speak become underneath. Both Miriam and Jesper's kind of tutelage for years. What is the transition like for you in the sense of coming from the outside into... Again, it seemed like it was a very tight team from what I saw from the outside. How was that working out for you?
Nina Puetz:
14:11 - Yeah. So I mean, remember I joined last December in the middle of the pandemic. People had been at home since March that year. I joined in September where you had a feeling it was for a couple of weeks, eight weeks was opening up. so I was able to spend a couple of days in the office until everything was closed again. However, everyone from the team was working from home and I was basically alone with my management team in the office. So for our team building and bonding, this was really great. But until I did the summer party of Ratepay last week, I have not met everyone in person because you can't... You don't reach people in all hands over video when they turn the camera off. So it was a different start from... If I had wished for something, of course I would have wished to meet everyone in person, but that was the time. And Ratepay was also after being more than 10 years old, was in the 11th year when I joined. It is no longer a startup. It has grown enormously and being service provider for big ecommerce merchants, it was and is growing like crazy. So I, in my daily work, my focus is changing. So compared to what I had to focus on in Brands4friends cost cutting, transformation, squeezing every little point out, for Ratepay is how do I actually manage this huge growth?
Paul Jozefak:
It's the hypergrowth phase, right?
Nina Puetz:
15:51 - Hypergrowth. How do I make sure that the platform isn't bursting? How do I allocate more capacity? Plus there were a couple of things that I would even call a crisis, things happening on a parallel. Because Ratepay had always worked with Wirecard, for example, as the banking partner for the installment product that was gone before I came. So what happened was over the course of like super short time period, the teams built a very own in-house installment solution that went live that also needed a refinancing mechanism. And this of course led to the fact that many resources in the company were bound towards that. So managing hypergrowth with fixing absolutely business critical things, that if they don't work out, they really harm your business and become really threats. This was my firefighting start. I would say the first four to five months in my new role with the challenge of how do I bring everyone on board and convince everyone that we are in a transformation phase as well. Yeah. Because Ratepay as a company needs to scale in order to be able to do that hypergrowth phase that we are currently in. And of course this also, when you do that, this leads to the fact that some people realize that the work environment might not be the right one anymore because if you look at different stages that companies are in, very early startup phase, then you become mature. Eventually you become a medium sized company on the way of eventually becoming a corporation, that you need different people for different times. And not all of them can make the change along. I mean, not everyone is Jeff Bezos or mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. You can't do that. So this is also the phase of accepting that you need certain new mindset, different mindsets and that not everyone can do that transformation.
Paul Jozefak:
18:07 - And then add in the whole COVID effect where a lot of people might be also readdressing or rethinking their own personal choices around career makes it, double difficult.
Nina Puetz:
18:17 - And focusing on families, yeah, working from home. Plus, I mean the number of people who are not at ease with spending one and a half years at home is incredible. And it's my responsibility as a leader in order to ensure that my teams are healthy both physically but also mentally. So those has also been as very, very strong focus and you could hear, so I also felt it at the end of last Winter I was tired basically. Yeah. I think I've never worked so much. Our teams have never worked so much. Everyone was sitting at home but it felt as if the hamster wheel was even worse than ever before. Yeah. And then you couldn't meet anyone socially. It was tiring for everyone.
Paul Jozefak:
Have you all come back to the office or?
Nina Puetz:
19:10 - We have but... So what we have done over the Summer, we have invited our teams to come back if they wanted, but we offered vaccinations. So we had two slots where anyone who wanted [...]
Paul Jozefak:
That's why Miriam told me you brought your own doctors in, right? To do the vaccination onsite.
Paul Jozefak:
Yeah. That was a great idea.
Nina Puetz:
19:31 - Yeah, we did that. Yeah because after Easter, I thought this would take so much longer than what it did in the end and I said, "Look, the average age year from our teams is so young that if we are lucky, they get vaccinated next Winter back then." So I said, "Look, we need to find a solution that we offer that to those who want," and we brought in our own doctors who did it in the end. Yeah. But then after that, I mean, we could have waited eight, 10 more weeks and then things would've loosened up but nobody knew that before.
Paul Jozefak:
20:07 - Let me ask a little bit of a question that most people aren't asking, I mean, are you and your team learning things now that'll help the company be more successful in the future? So the back of this transition from office to maybe a hybrid model firefighting from afar, we're doing everything by video partially, are there lessons to be learned for future hypergrowth situations?
Nina Puetz:
20:37 - We're learning every day, every day. And so the first thing that we are learning is that it was actually possible to work successfully with everyone being at home. Because Ratepay's culture before had primarily been based on everyone being in the office. So also people we hired, they had to be Berlin based. It was everything about the culture was meeting in person, yeah, having super strong, direct connects. The pandemic showed that actually productivity has increased massively, sick rates went down, employee satisfaction in the early days went up with everyone being home because they saved time for the daily commute, our office being in the center of Berlin, but people really living everywhere. So we have quite a few colleagues that have over an hour of commute one way per day. So for those guys, employee satisfaction went up. So we learned that we can work successfully with everyone being at home. And everyone had the technology at hand and the support to really be able to fully work. Everything was accessible. What we also then learned is that it's possible to launch new products in a successful way. So during the pandemic, we have actually never been as successful as in launching new products than what we have been before. So this worked very well. However, what I just said is towards the end, especially of last Winter, you could feel that everyone was getting tired. So coming back on the office scenario for me in the future for us, it's not about having everyone in the office or having everyone at home, we need to have a hybrid structure where teams can come together and meet in person and someone who wants can come five days to the office, but others might not want to come there at all. And we have massively changed the way how we hire. So we now no longer necessarily hire Berlin based candidates, but you can live anywhere. And it helped us also to bring in a lot more of international talents. So we now have 38 people from 38 countries, working in Ratepay.
Paul Jozefak:
23:08 - How are you managing that? So it's something that we're doing. I mean, I'm in... I have 50 people and we're in 27 countries. So we're fully remote as a business. How are you managing the folks that are coming on board and are fully remote? So how do you get that culture, the company culture to continue evolving?
Nina Puetz:
23:34 - Our onboarding is all fully remote. It has always been, but it's... I mean, the leadership in these times is different than before. So in order to be successful as a leader, you have to be even more empathetic with a lot of empathy than what you have had before, because you can't assess the sentiments as well as you could. If someone was sitting right next to you. So you have to be really mindful and focus on that. Also leads to the fact that we have even more meetings because of course, yeah, instead of having the coffee at the coffee machine, the quick one, or walking together along the aisle back to your desk, you need five, 10 minutes brief check-ins-
Paul Jozefak:
Checking in, checking in, checking in, right?
Nina Puetz:
24:10 - Checking in, checking in, checking in. At the beginning, we even had weekly all-hands where we brought everyone up to speed. And the beginning of the pandemic, it was a lot about like super comms bringing everyone up to speed. Eventually that decreased to every two weeks we have now all-hands only once every month. Which works well. But then of course you have... Individual teams have one-on-ones they're regular. Plus team meetings. Everyone is constantly on the call and we realize now how happy everyone is to be [sometimes] in the office, we will never go back to 100% model. I'm not sure yet whether I force everyone to come to the office for let's say five or eight days per month or whether we allow everyone full freedom. At the moment, the plan is that we delegate that to the team leads and the team leads can say, "I want my team in person together once every month," for example, and we work together. But we are increasing the number of events. Yeah. So we say now once every month, the openness... Is open for everyone who wants to come, there's food provided and we meet, either we discuss certain topics or it's we listen to some music, we do a gin tasting, we have a sushi evening. We hang out because we somehow need to compensate for that personal culture that derived at Ratepay from everyone meeting [each other]. But so I'm super happy with how Ratepay has performed with regards to managing this hypergrowth in a way where everyone was working remote plus having this really, really strong focus on improving our product and launching new customer facing products that are really step changes better than what we have today. And it showed that with the super intense leadership work also but if you have that, that you can work and be successful in that form, which no one would ever have believed before the pandemic.
Paul Jozefak:
26:25 - Sure. So a little bit of a tangent. I mean, one of the things I definitely don't have to say is that you've had a great career. I mean, you've definitely, from what you've done so far, have had extensive management experience over, I mean, the course of, I think you said 15 years at this point, right? And it looks like you were just always carrying a lot of responsibility even very early in your career. One of the things that I talked about with Miriam, she's very active in the scene when it comes to women in tech, women in management. How much are you driving that as well? I mean, is that something that's top of your list driving for more women in leadership positions or is it just something you just do? Do you understand what I'm getting at?
Nina Puetz:
27:06 - Yeah, I am. And it's a very good question because in my early career... How do I say that? It happened naturally because I was on the lucky side that I was able to grow up in a company like eBay. Because eBay already, right from this start, when I started was having unconscious/conscious bias trainings, focusing in senior leadership hires. If you had two equally ideal candidates on skills and experience level that for a director and above, they would hire the woman in order to increase the share of women in senior leadership positions, which eBay at that time was already at globally, over 30%, which was really good for a tech company. So for me, I grew up with that and it came natural. Whenever I'm in these networks, on panels, and you realize that this is not daily happening in many, many industries in Germany, especially in the medium sized companies, therefore a couple of years ago, I told myself, "Look, I need to push women and I need to ensure that we have women in leadership positions because the more women we have in the tech field, the more will follow, the more will become role models." But if you look at, I mean, still in Germany, only 24% of all jobs in the IT sector are held by women and even worse, yeah, if you look at European specialists in information and communication technology, that's only 16%-
Paul Jozefak:
And you go up the ladder management, it's less and less and less the further you get up, right?
Nina Puetz:
28:05 - It's less and less and less. So that's why Ratepay is in a very comfortable position because we have over 60% women in our management team and a little under 40% men. But that's also not so diverse, yeah, because ideally you should-
Paul Jozefak:
It's should go back and forth.
Nina Puetz:
29:11 - Exactly it's back and forth. But if you look at the overall share and rate pay of women, that's still only one third. So yeah, it's always... I'm trying to get in as much as we can and it's has always been... I wouldn't say easy, but it was natural for Miriam and also now for me, because if you have a woman running that company, automatically female employees say, "Look, I would like to work here," and they apply for a role. And but it... We have to start in education because it's still... If I look at the school of my son, you look at mathematics, for example, and then those special courses for people who are super strong in mathematics, it's one girl and the rest is boys. And this is wrong. Yeah. This is absolutely wrong and we need to start very early in our education in order to change that.
Paul Jozefak:
So throughout your career, you've grown into becoming a role model by choice and-
Nina Puetz:
Yeah, but I never wanted. I never wanted to be a role model. I don't know. It came naturally-
Paul Jozefak:
It just happened.
Nina Puetz:
Yeah. So, it just happened.
Nina Puetz:
30:24 - We have to help ourselves. This is also important, yeah, because I think we as women, because we are so few, we also have to help ourselves and become better networkers because also I'm stereotyping now, it's really... Yeah. I'm putting... Really stereotyping but in general, men are stronger in networking. And then if there's a position free, yeah, you're asked, "Look, would you be... Here you would be great." And it's their network of men and women lacked that in the past. Yeah. And this is why, I mean, I love and I enjoy very much networking. So I think in the last 5, 6, 7 years, this has changed massively that we call each other and our networks and say, "Look, this company is searching for someone here, wouldn't you be interested?" Yeah. And this is a very strong female network.
Paul Jozefak:
31:14 - But I think that's also a little bit... I'm not a big fan of the term role model, but as you said that you're focused on it and it evolved into that over time. Obviously the, let's say girls in school or out of college or whatever, if they see someone in a position they can learn. Networking. Again, I would almost fight back on that stereotype. I don't think women are worse at networking, it's just they might just not be put in those positions as often. And you're in the position now where I... Again, I knew you were at Money20/20, for example, right? Not because of the fact that you're a woman at Money20/20. I knew you were there as a manager who had taken care or taken over at Ratepay and you become a role model, right? I mean, it's just... Usually those events are all men, that's just the way it is.
Nina Puetz:
Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is.
Paul Jozefak:
32:02 - , well, we are going to run out of time. I have one last question for you. So now that you've taken the helmet Ratepay, what's the future for Ratepay? Where are you guys going? I mean, you're in a space right now that's just blowing up. I mean, it feels like I see a new startup getting funded with 100 million every day. Does that keep you up at night saying, "What's going on?" I mean, on one hand hypergrowth, you guys are-
Nina Puetz:
32:20 - It does Paul. Yeah. It keeps me up at night as these companies are funded ridiculously well, they have so much money at the moment. And if I look at Ratepay, I mean, owned for a very long time by the Otto group, then PE owned now part [Nexi and Nets], we never got these hypergrowth fundings and Ratepay grew from its own development. For many, many years like very shortly after being founded, being EBITDA positive [earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization.] So that makes life for me compared to my competitors who have millions of millions and funds makes life more difficult because I have to be super focused in what I do, because of course I have a super long list of really great things that we need to do and that are important for the customers and that are necessary in the market, but I only have limited resources available. So I have to be very, very mindful. The market we play in is a brilliant market to be in at the moment. Yeah. ecommerce is growing hugely. The buy now, pay later market that we play in is growing hugely. And also some regulatory things help us with a strong customer authentication, credit card, yeah, that people especially in the DACH region prefer to pay with, invoice and installments now increasingly. So that's a very comfortable position.
Paul Jozefak:
Perfect storm for BNPL.
Nina Puetz:
33:53 - Exactly. I mean, we are the leading wide label buy now, pay later partner and I want to stay of course that way. So we have a very clear plan, a clear focus to do that. And then there's so much room still for us to grow in Germany because if you look at the top 1,000 ecommerce stores, 50% of those either don't do alternative pay payment methods, yeah, or they do it badly in-house. So there's room for us but also internationally, internationally this is huge. And then think about all the value added services that we can offer our merchants. So I'm super passionate about the next five years will be really, really interesting. And for me the biggest issue is how do I manage this really, really strong growth and where do I focus my tech resources on that? The platform goes with these enormous growth that we see.
Paul Jozefak:
Would you guys consider acquisitions or potentially raising [Private Equipty] money to go more, even bigger internationally? That must all be on the roadmap in some sense.
Nina Puetz:
35:01 - It is. It is. So there's internationalization on the roadmap plus expansionism on the roadmap of course, yeah, then growing with the winners of course and DACH. Then tons of product improvements, yeah, that you need because again, yeah, customers want different things and always, especially as a service provider, you have to solve an issue for a customer or make life easier for them. So there's this tons on the roadmap and also inorganic growth is also something that of course we look at being part of such a big group that we are. So for us to grow internationally, for example, is easier rather than doing it ourselves, we will likely do this partnering with someone or buying.
Paul Jozefak:
35:47 - Well, then on that note, I definitely want to wish you all the luck. I don't think you're going to need it. I think you're going to basically 10X this company easily. I'm sure you'll also be very busy the rest of the day. So I will let you get onto whatever else you have planned. I think it's just a half day at this point. Thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate it. I hope I asked at least one question that you haven't been asked before, b-
Nina Puetz:
It was lovely talking to you, Paul, and we could have continued now for the next two hours.
Paul Jozefak:
Next time we'll make it longer, but on that note, thank you again and all the best. Bye-bye.
Nina Puetz:
Thanks for having me. Bye Paul. Have a lovely day.
Paul Jozefak:
You too.
Further podcast episodes to check out
Paul is guest on the SaaS Product Power Breakfast with Dave Kellogg and Thomas Otter.
What the SaaS - Episode #4 - Between Two Tracks Founders with Paul Jozefak and Michael Backes.
What the SaaS - Episode #3 - Disrupting the financial services industry with Matthias Kröner.
What the SaaS - Episode #2 - Why Embedded Finance? with Miriam Wohlfarth of Banxware.
What the SaaS - Episode #1 - Organisational challenges and digital transformation in collections with Stephan Schuller of Ferratum.
